Franklin's Garage to Stage
All things starting a musical band. From garage to stage getting your band going and beyond.
Interviews with musician's, Producers, club owners, recording artist's and others in field of recording or performing.
Discussions on pitfalls to avoid and what works from personal and other's experiences.
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Franklin's Garage to Stage
Doom Metal Pioneers; Trouble Guitarist Bruce Franklin - Revelations of 40+ years in the music business
We sit down with Bruce Franklin of Trouble to trace a 40-year path from garages and Chicago clubs to international festivals, digging into tone, songwriting, and the business choices that shape longevity. He opens up about gear, Rubin-era lessons, the new record, and why Europe still shows up for heavy music.
• Trouble’s origins and early influences
• Building a signature tone with Marshall and Clone Theory
• Metallica sightings and scene myths
• Finding a drummer and auditioning with a click
• Recording shift from tape to Pro Tools at home
• New album direction across doom, groove, and prog-leaning tracks
• Lessons from Rick Rubin on structure and economy
• Onstage “oh shit” moments and recovery
• Setlist design across eras and fan respect
• In-ear monitors versus loud amps for feel
• Contracts, catalogs, and why a lawyer matters
• Leaving Deaf American and the one big regret
• Rehearsal habits and staying tight with age
• Europe’s festival strength and U.S. decline
• Defining Trouble for first-time listeners
See Bruce's complete bio at franklinsgaragetostage.com
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Hi, welcome to Franklin's Garage to State Podcast. My name is Rob Wardrums Franklin, and my co-host, my friend, my brother, my bandmate is Dana Thunderbase Franklin. How you doing, man?
Dana Franklin:Good, good.
Rob Franklin:Hey, good. Hey, this episode is something we've been looking forward to and talking about for almost a year, so I'm really, really, really excited about doing this one. His dad and my dad used to get together and make us laugh so hard my stomach would hurt. That's kind of like a little teaser where we're going here. But uh David, you want to introduce our uh very special guest today?
Dana Franklin:Oh, I'd love to. Um not only a fellow musician, but you know, as as our name implies, you know, our with our show is Franklin's Garage of Stage. And uh, you know, like like Rob said here, it's you know, when we first started this podcast, uh we had in mind the one person that we you know thought would really uh show and be a special guest for us, and and we're we're pleased to have him with us today. And and you'll notice the last thing because the last thing is Franklin also. Um Mr. Bruce Franklin, who's uh you know one of the founders and guitar players for uh you know, in my opinion, one of the best bands out there, but um also uh uh what is classified as a doom metal band back in the day, but you know listed alongside Black Sabbath Candomass is one of the main influences of death of Doom Metal and the band Trouble. Mr. Bruce Franklin, how you doing, man?
Bruce Franklin:Doing great. Great to see you guys.
Rob Franklin:Uh good to see you, really good to see you. It's it's been a minute.
Speaker 3:It's been a long time. Yeah.
Rob Franklin:So, Bruce, you know, I searched high and low on your website and your socials, but I didn't really see uh a specific bio for you. So could you tell our all our listeners uh basically your start and and how you got to the point you're at today?
Bruce Franklin:Yeah, sure. Um try to not ramble.
Speaker 3:No, ramble away. Go for it.
Bruce Franklin:Um well, so I started like a lot of people do uh when I was in high school. I got together with a bunch of guys, and it was our all of our first band, and we did cover songs and played a handful of gigs, you know, and uh it was a good experience to get going. I'm sure you guys went through that same thing. Um, but then I it was at a point where I wasn't satisfied with that, and I was looking to do something more serious, and it just coincided with graduating high school and choosing not to go to college. I go to I had opportunities, but I chose to go for music, and um about a month after my 18th birthday, um the singer and I from this band were looking through ads in um Illinois music paper, actually really concentrated in the Chicago area, and we found so this is 1979. We found some guys playing the kind of music we wanted to play, which was at that time increasingly smaller because New Wave was kind of what was in, you know, and we found I still remember the ad reading the ad. Um, you know, uh uh the name of the band was Trouble, uh guitar player, bass player, drummer seek uh second guitar player and singer. And like, well that's us. Influence, X Sabbath, UFO, Judas Priest, then Lizzie. And I was like, I'm down for that, man. Because that's exactly what I wanted to do. I mean, at least to start off with, you know, you're talking about cover songs. So we went and auditioned and uh we got accepted and joined the band. Um and this so when I said the singer from my first band, who was the original singer in trouble, Eric Wagner. So we we joined in 1979, and that's when that's when it kind of got to more like the title of your podcast, the garage to the stage. Where I mean we you know, we had our time where we had to learn all our songs, and we started writing originals, and so we started gigging out like fairly frequently eventually, um, and uh the more originals we got, the more we s we saw more people coming to see us. People were interested. This is again obviously that that isn't today, but this was that and people really were digging our originals, and you know, at some point we switched to almost all originals and just a couple of covers. But that so that's when it kind of got more serious, and I knew that I I made the right choice, at least in my mind, maybe not financially, but but uh what I would love to do, I felt like I made the right choice. And it went from there eventually. I don't want to go through the whole thing because you probably have other questions, but eventually we got a record deal in small label, and then eventually on a big label, and anyway, that's how I got to where I'm at. Um, like a 40-some-year career with trouble.
Dana Franklin:Awesome, awesome. Um, so I remember us you know as kids, of course, and you know, parents' backyard running around and doing our stupid little games that we did as kids and shit. Um, but you know, and my earliest recollection, I remember you you know started playing guitar, you know, you must have been nine, ten years old, maybe a little bit later, I'm not sure. Can you tell us a little bit about you know when that started for you? And and uh you know, the second part of this question is at what point did you realize, you know what, music is the path I want to take in my life, and every everything else sucks. It's gotta be music.
Rob Franklin:Good question. Good question.
Bruce Franklin:Well, okay, so so here's the thing. So the Monkeys TV show is what looked like six years old. Now I didn't start playing yet, but that's I told my parents I wanted to actually they got me a little kind of toy drum kit. Uh it was kind of real, kind of toy. It wasn't 100% real, but anyway, I drove them nuts with it the making noise with that. And at some point they said, uh, you know what, you're gonna change instruments to guitar. They got a guitar and they started me guitar lessons, and by this time I was eight. So that's I started when I was eight. I took uh guitar lessons for about two years or so, and you guys remember my parents got divorced, um, and money was tight. My mom couldn't really afford to keep doing lessons, so I you know, I had the foundation of what I learned in those couple of years of lessons, and I just started teaching myself from records, which a lot of people do, you know.
Rob Franklin:Yeah, oh yeah. It's obviously worked for you.
Bruce Franklin:But so to the point of so I knew I didn't know, you know, maybe you know, when you're 11, you might not know it's what you want to do for the rest of your life and your career and everything, maybe, but I knew that I loved music and wanted to do it, you know. So it would be later on, maybe, when I really decided this is what I really want to do for my life, you know.
Rob Franklin:Nice, you're kind of about two-partner here. Uh, who are your like earliest influences besides the monkeys, and then how has your equipment progressed from that time to to now, basically? And what do you currently play through as far as axe, amp, man, effects?
Bruce Franklin:Yeah. Um, well, so I did like um, now we're talking young. Um, I did like some of the psychedelic music that I would hear. And then my mom, I remember my mom had a Mamas and Papa's album and a Beatles album and a few Motown albums. So that was like my early, early, like really young, like six, seven, eight, nine years old. Um and then I think it was about 11 years old, is when I really found rock and roll. I started listening to the radio and then started getting albums. And so I liked hard. At first I liked kind of popular rock, but uh not long after that I started getting into the like and it was big for the time. Rob remembers this obviously, um like in the early 70s 70s there was a lot of hard rock, a lot of great hard rock.
Speaker 3:Oh yeah, yeah.
Bruce Franklin:So that's that was a big influence in shaping where I wanted to go. Um, as for equipment, uh I had some piece of junk little lamp. I couldn't even tell you what it was. I mean, I'm talking about early like when I was nine years old, ten years old. Um, and uh and a piece of junk uh telecaster copy. You know, and I had that until I bought a real guitar when I was about 17. Um about 17, I got my first flying feed. Um and I had graduated to a custom amp, you know, the brand custom with K. Um and uh it was a lot better than the piece of crap little amp I had, but it still wasn't what I I really wanted in the end. But um, so I had that for a little while, even at the beginning of this first band that I was in, I had that that amp. But I had by that time I had gotten that fairly decent guitar, and uh then um the end of my first band that I was in, I got a Marshall Stack. Um my mom helped me finance, she didn't pay for it. I had to pay her, she bought it, and I had to make the payments to her. Um, but so that was I had my five yen Marshall Stack, and that was the beginning of finding the sound that I eventually would have with trouble. Um yeah, and just developed it with trouble. Um so um, yeah, all the early days I was playing this uh it's actually an Ibanez rock and roll. Um, and it's not a cheap copy. It's it's so there's a whole story behind this Ibanez guitar, Ibanez rock and roll. It's it's the closest you could get to the original 57 Gibson, that wood grain with the white pick guard Gibson. They it was the original 57, that's what they copied, and they copied it so close, and it's so good that Gibson sued them, and they only made those for two years. So I've actually got two of them.
Dana Franklin:Nice.
Bruce Franklin:And there's great guitars. So a lot of times people like see my guitar up close and they go, Oh, it's an Ivanz. Man, this Ivaniz is better than most Gibson's, you know. There are some years, some good years of Gibson's that are really good, but anyway, so that that was the early days of trouble, especially. I was playing that guitar on Marshall, and I found this pedal, this is another big part of it, this uh electroharmonics pedal called the clone theory. And it's uh it's like a chorus, it was chorus and flange. I never used the flange, I used the chorus, and it also gave this little edge to the sound, like a bite to it almost, almost like a little bit of a boost. And that was like I still have that very same one, that pedal that I got in 1979. Is that right? Wow. Still use it to this day. That was a key ingredient of my sound. Okay.
Dana Franklin:Awesome. Well, go well, going to your sound, you know. I've I've read or heard stories about, you know, and you know, maybe you can elaborate on this a little bit about times where you know certain members of Metallica would try to get on stage because they loved your sound so much and wanted to copy it and and see what you were doing as far as amp settings and stuff like that. Is there any truth to that?
Bruce Franklin:Well, I don't know if it's as as uh you know as much as what you just said, but one time, so you you saw us play at the stone, Kirk.
Dana Franklin:Yes, yes. I was gonna bring that up too.
Bruce Franklin:One of the times we were playing at the stone, it was early on. It may have been when we in 1987 we were we toured with King Diamond and we played there.
Speaker 3:Nice.
Bruce Franklin:Lars and James and Kirk were all there, and it may have been that time. Reason I'm not sure because James came and seen us three times there, but I think that was the time in '87. And so he and we had done sound check but didn't play yet. And after we finished our sound check, I saw them walk up on the stage and they're looking at our amps. Now that doesn't mean that, oh, we need to steal their sound, you know. But I'm sure but they were curious, I'm sure, because you know, it it it's a fairly unique sound. Oh, yeah, yeah. Pretty heavy sound, and fairly unique. I'm sure they were curious, you know. And anyway, they were both looking, they looked at both of our marshals, you know, Rick Bortel and myself, both of our amps, and yeah, I please so this story gained legs because Eric Wagner, the singer, in an interview once said something more like what you said in the beginning.
Speaker 3:And I don't know if that's maybe that's where I got it from.
Bruce Franklin:Yeah, maybe I don't know if that's completely the case, but they were looking at our amps, like definitely had to have been curious. Yeah.
Rob Franklin:Speaking of band members, uh, your new drummer, Gary Naples, what was the uh audition process, or was it more like you already knew who he was and what he could do, or did you actually have an audition process?
Bruce Franklin:We did have an audition, um, but um so our bass player knew him, and the band that we knew he's in a few bands, but the band we really knew him from was a band called November's Doom. And we had played uh just played a show where they were opening the show um like a year earlier. Um, and then our bass player knew him, said he's a great guy, says he's a great drummer. I had a friend of mine, actually the guy that supplied me with this computer tonight, and uh he's an older guy like me. Um, and those were the only two guys that we auditioned because we knew they were both good drummers, and in the end, um it was it didn't end up even having to be a choice because the older guy decided that he probably couldn't really commit to as much as we were gonna need, and he kind of bowed out. So that left Gary. And so um we we liked that he was younger because he's 38, or maybe he's 39 now.
Dana Franklin:Oh, the kid in the king's thirty.
Bruce Franklin:He's a puppy. I I'm old enough to be his father, yes. But we liked that uh he brought energy, and what we really liked, I mean he he has chops, but what we really liked is um his timing's impeccable.
Speaker 3:Nice.
Bruce Franklin:Um and we found this uh, in fact, part of the audition was learning two of our new songs from our new record and um playing with a click check to these new songs.
Rob Franklin:Next question.
Bruce Franklin:Well, that's what he nailed. Um, and then we had then we asked him to play some of our hardest, more progressive songs for the callback kind of thing, you know. And he did those really great too. And then we we said, Well, we think he's gonna work, you know. We we knew that he had enough that as long as we worked with him that it would work out, and it has. Cool.
Dana Franklin:Awesome, cool, very cool. Now going back to the the to the young kids and stuff, me and Rob had uh experience with you know, when we were starting to get playing again out here, you know, when Rob came back out here in North Carolina, and um we had a couple young kids we were playing with, you know, actually one was 18 and one was 20, so real young talent. But the funny story is uh you know, this 20-year-old singer comes up to us, and me and Rob happened to be talking about the podcast and what we were doing and stuff, and you know, and somehow I think your name or trouble came up, and he's like, oh shit, that's your cousin. And he went out to his car, pulled out a CD, and sure as shit, it was trouble. And it was just I mean, it's it's great to see you know the young, a younger kid, you know, listening to Trouble, you know, well, things, you know, everybody our age is 50s or 60s, whatever. You know, so how do you feel knowing that number one, you're uh classified as one of the big four of the doom metals alongside, like I said, Candlemas, like Vitus, you know, Black Sabbath. You know, but that you're also influencing you know the younger bands that you know that digged your stuff and they're like, oh shit, yeah, I used to listen to or still do and you know try to emulate you know trouble. I mean, how how does that feel knowing that kids are trying to copy you? Yeah, yeah.
Bruce Franklin:Yeah, well, it it feels great. Yeah, I mean, you f feel like I didn't waste 40 some years, you know. I can tell you some stories though. Um the last so um we went for like a five-year span where we didn't play, mostly because we were writing songs and then COVID hit, and so we just went like five years without playing. Not because we were broken up, but all because of those reasons. And then so when we played again, um the last three times we've played Chicago, probably 60% of the audience are 40 or under.
Rob Franklin:Oh well, nice.
Bruce Franklin:So it's not a bunch of 50, 60 year olds, but man, I remember you in 1980, you know. And that well, that is really encouraging when you're looking out and seeing a crowd like that.
Speaker 3:That's awesome.
Bruce Franklin:Knowing you know how old we are and how long we've been around. Um, so we we I mean we know that and we're thankful for that big time. Um, yeah, I mean, and I mean, yeah, I know we I hear things from other bands, and we know the influence that we've had. It's it you know, it's very nice. I'll tell you one thing though, there's Black Sabbath, and then there's everybody else. Yeah, very nice. Yeah.
Rob Franklin:Yeah, yeah. So speaking of uh uh recording, how has your recording process changed from like say when you first started to now?
Bruce Franklin:Oh, plenty. That's what I assume. Well, I mean, if you even want to start like in our first record, um our first two records we went out to LA and recorded. Um and it was of course it was analog tape, right, you know, and and now the last two records we've recorded uh in a house, our soundman, you know, has a hundred plus thousand dollars of equipment. Um and we've so the last record that actually we released like a dozen years ago or whatever, uh and then someone we have both recorded like that in a house with his with his stuff. Um we didn't mix it there, we mixed it in a real place with a with with somebody else, but um, and we will do the same with this new album. But of course now it's digital Pro Tools and so it's cheaper as long as you've got good equipment, you know. You can't you can't skip and buy shit. You know, you gotta have but you know, um yeah, it's cheaper and you can record when you want. You're not like well we got the studio blocked out for 20 hours, we gotta get the um so I mean that's what's changed. So we're taking months to record this album because we actually all have in one way or another have jobs. Um so I I record on Sundays, like one day a week. Um and so I mean we did the basic track together and then didn't use the guitars, just kept the drums and um, and then we've been redoing like rhythm guitars. We're almost done with that. But I mean, so that's that's the difference. Now we can record like that and still not lose our life that we have, you know.
Rob Franklin:Right, right. Well, speaking of recording, I mean, uh, as a follow-up question, uh what would you suggest to like new musicians just getting it just getting to the process of recording that maybe on a budget? Since you've experienced like all different levels of it, it sounds like what would be your advice to those particular people?
Bruce Franklin:Yeah, uh I'm probably not the best person to ask this because I am not a tech head. Um but um microphones and preamps are huge in in the recording process, super important. Okay, um and um yeah, like I said, I'm not I'm I'm not so much a tech guy, um, and I couldn't tell you all the greatest equipment to have, but um I do know that much. Um the my microphones and and preamps are huge to to getting a good sound uh and and a pro type sound and not a bad cheap demo sound.
Speaker 3:Okay.
Rob Franklin:Good advice.
Dana Franklin:Thank you. Absolutely. Um so going back to your recordings, I mean, every every fan has, of course, their favorite albums and favorite times with you know every band. Um and you know, same goes with trouble, of course. And then even in my opinion, I mean I love your early stuff. Uh the era I really love the most, I think, is when you're with Deaf American and you know, Rick Rubin and some, I mean, it was just a different change from, of course, your like you said, your first three albums. Um, but it's it's great to see the progression. What what do we what do we have in store for your new album? What's what direction are you heading with this new one?
Bruce Franklin:Uh it's so it's natural, whatever it is. It isn't like, hey, we're gonna do this on this album. We're just writing songs, first of all. Um so I would say even so with the last record that we did, um, with Kyle singing, our current singer. Um uh it's very, you know, probably in the same vein, although I feel like we have a few better songs on this record. Um, but so it's kind of an amalgam. Um so thinking of just the the songs on the new album, I mean there's a couple of Doom things, there's a couple of uh longer, slightly more progressive. When I say progressive, I don't mean yes, or dream theater, but more progressive than our normal stuff. Um and then there's some grooving stuff like the Deaf American era, like with the like catchy chorus, not necessarily sell out, just like we I I just call it groove metal, you know. Um and so there's a combination of of all of that, and I mean we have more songs than we're going to use also. Um, so um I want to say we have 11 originals and we'll probably use eight on vinyl and maybe nine or ten maybe on the on like CD and digital. Um so like not every I don't know every song that's gonna make it, but but I got a good idea what most of them are. Uh so anyway, it's just a a combination of like the Deaf American Era songs and kind of like the early record songs, but we're just better players than we were then. I mean, we were we were kids. I was I was 22 when I recorded our first album.
Speaker 3:Wow.
Bruce Franklin:And it I mean, and people a lot of times a lot of lot of fans into Doom Metal, that's their favorite record from Joel. And like sometimes people ask, well, why do you write songs like that anymore? For one thing, I'm not 22 anymore. And I'm a better songwriter and a better player now, you know, and I just don't want to. I mean, there like I said, there's a couple songs that are pretty doom metal on the new record, but but it's not gonna be like the first record, though, you know. Um, so anyway, it we you know, you grow, you grow as a band, and Rick and I have been playing together, two guitar players have been playing together from the beginning. And we've grown and done a lot of things. Um, and so it it just comes natural. We we write songs, and that's what it is. Isn't like, well, we need to write one of these songs, and we need to write we just write songs and it ends up being what it is. And we've kind of always done that, to tell you the truth. Even the Deaf American records, um, the very first one, um we you know, we kind of butted heads with Rick Rubin, and uh, because we had a little bit more progressive and longer stuff, and he wanted to trim that down and make them more like four-minute songs that get to the point. Um, and he let us have a little bit of the stuff that we wanted to do, but like he was instrumental and kind of a lot of song keeping like first chorus bridge first chorus.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Dana Franklin:I was gonna ask how much you butt with the producers and how the fight goes with that and who ends up winning.
Bruce Franklin:Well, I fought I fought plenty with Rick Rubin, to tell you the truth. Um and uh it was it was a compromise. Um but I wasn't unhappy in the end. I was happy in the end, to tell you the truth. Um and he's helped helped um us grow as songwriters, actually. From so I don't want to make every song a three and a half or four-minute song with verse chorus, verse chorus, you know. But um I learned how to write songs though. Um and and it helped. Um and even our even making that record, so uh the song Psychotic Reaction, he really liked it. He thought that's a single, you know. He's like, he's like, but the but the record needs another psychotic reaction. So I was like, all right. I went we were this is like pre-production, we were in LA, you know. We're slated to start recording as soon as he thinks we're ready. Um, so we're staying in a suite. We had two suites because you know there's five of us. Um, and I went into the bathroom and I closed the door because I could hear my guitar in there because of the tile floor and stuff. You know, because I didn't have an app in the suite. And I wrote a song that I thought was in the vein of psychotic reaction, but didn't sound like psychotic psychic. And uh that ended up being at the end of my days, and he liked it so much. Ruben wanted to lead the album off with that song.
Rob Franklin:Very cool. That's a great story. Hey, speaking of stories, we have uh a thing we call Oh shit. It's kind of when something's happened to either you, the band, or whatever during either rehearsal or a live performance for you just had no control over, and it was an oh shit moment.
unknown:Yeah.
Bruce Franklin:There's probably a lot of small ones. I was trying to think of clue me in that you were gonna ask this. So I was trying to think of um because there's plenty of small ones that you get through okay, you know. Um and I could think of a two. Um one one, so we were playing uh on uh this heavy metal cruise called 70,000 tons of metal. Oh yeah, one of the videos. Yeah, we saw that. So this particular we've played it three times. This particular time was the first time we played it, like about 15 years ago or so. And so because you fly down to Miami and get on the uh the ship, you know, and then go on the cruise, uh, you know, we didn't have equipment and we had to go on a plane. So we didn't want to bring an extra guitar guitar, like you know, in case something goes wrong or you break a string. So we didn't have an extra guitar, but we put new strings on, you know, and like you only have to play two times on the cruise. Like, you'll never break a string. I broke a string. And we also didn't have crew because because of the situation with the crews. I mean, they're not paying for us to bring a crew, yeah. We we we they pay for us to bring our sound, man, that was as far as they'd go. So we're basically our own roadies, right? Now it is Reddit here, and they have it on the stage for you, but um setting your pedals up and all that stuff, you're doing yourself. So, anyway, I break a string in the middle of the show. And I'm like, oh. Crap. And I I like I told the other guys I broke a string, I gotta go change a string. So the whole crowd is sitting waiting for me to change a string on my guitar plug. That is an ocean. My hands are shaking because I'm like trying to bring up and I'm nervous. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So that was a pretty old shit moment. Normally at a normal gig, I would have another guitar I could use, and I would have a tech who would change that string while I'm playing the other guitar, but in this case, no. And then the other one I thought of wasn't even playing on stage. Um we were in Britain, and so power in Europe is 220. So I still use that pedal I was telling you about, that uh electroharmonics clone theory pedal. So I have a converter that converts the 220 to 110, so that you don't fry your stuff, you know? Um I I just I don't know how this happened. I just spaced out and I plugged my pedal in without the converter, and then I knew it immediately and I plugged it, but it was too too late. I fried the pedal. Oh, and so this is even before sound check. And this ended up being a great story, though. Um so we're in London, and so this is probably four hours before the show, because this is even before sound check. We were just putting our stuff on the stage and setting it up. And anyway, guy working the show, a local guy working the stage at the show, um, you know, he saw this and he heard me like yelling about it. And he's like, hey, hey, I know this really great uh repair guy that if he has a part, he can fix it, I'm sure. Like, oh man, let's go. Well, there was these couple other fans from one was from Norway, one was from Sweden, one one was from Spain. And the the British guy that I just told you about that was working the show, they all wanted to come with. So they were there early waiting to get in to see us, you know. They were there all were there early, um, had traveled to London. So we all ride together on the tube to to wherever this place is that he took us to to the repair guy, and we're talking and and and I'm kind of laughing because like this is an amazing story. I got I've got uh Norwegian, a Swede, Spanish, local UK, me the crazy American, like all travelers. We bring it and the guy says, Yeah, I can fix it. You know, it might it's gonna take me about an hour and a half. So we went and screwed around, walked around and came back, and the darn if the guy didn't fix it.
Speaker 3:Nice.
Bruce Franklin:Um, and still in that condition. That's the last time it was worked on.
Dana Franklin:Oh, it's oh shit, uh he must have done it well.
Bruce Franklin:Yeah, he did do it well, and I was never stupid enough to do that. But that was a big old shit, though.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Bruce Franklin:When I fried that pedal, because that is like like I was telling you, a key ingredient to myself. All right, all right.
Dana Franklin:So I I gotta say, you know, I'm I'm a little jealous, you know, not only because you're huge and me and Rob have been trying to do this for years also, but you know, I saw this tribute that you did to Chris Cornell, and dude, you got a voice.
Speaker 3:Yeah, you do.
Dana Franklin:I you know, it's like where the hell did you get that from? Nobody else in our family can sing like that. So, y'all, so I'm jealous of that. And and how did that come about where you did that whole, I mean, shit, you played guitar, bass, I think everything but the drums on that song. And and how'd that come about? How did how do you what you what made you do that?
Bruce Franklin:Well, Chris passing away is what made me do it. Yeah, I'm gonna do that. But really, what what really made me do it though? So I was a big fan uh of his singing, especially, but I I like Soundgarden a lot. Um and and um I saw all the when when he passed away, all these different bands were doing tributes. And I'm watching all these, and and I they're all terrible, every one of them. I was like, man, this is brutal. I'm talking about big bands too. Like, I mean, maybe they didn't spend a lot of time learning it or whatever song they did, but I just saw a bunch of terrible performances of Soundgarden songs, and I was like, man, I'm gonna do a tribute, and I'm not gonna I'm gonna do it right. I'm never gonna sound as good as Chris Cornell, but I'm gonna do it justice at least, you know. So that was my it was no it never I didn't even release it. I we just made a video and put it on YouTube just to pay tribute to Chris Cornell. It was awesome. Yeah, it was awesome.
Dana Franklin:I wanted to do it right, you know, and you didn't could anyway, yeah.
Rob Franklin:So getting back to Lake Songs. Uh, what does your typical set list consist of? Uh do you like try to span your whole career or do you have like do you stick with newer stuff? And and how many songs are in your typical set?
Bruce Franklin:Uh typical set is probably about 14, 15 songs. Um, yeah, we try to span the career. Um seems like we never play anything from Run to the Light, though. Our third record. Uh people complain. I've tried the last I've tried a bunch of times to put the song Run to the Light into a set, and it just ended up nothing wrong with the song, but just ended up it's messing up the set. You know, we take it out, the set's perfect. Like, and we just but but yeah, for the most part, we try to do stuff through most of our records. You can never do every single record when you're only playing 14 or 15 songs, but um Yeah, we we we do plenty from from our first couple records, and then plenty from the Deaf American era, and then you know, we'll do s the some of our newest stuff. Um I just saw Alice Cooper, and um I was really disappointed in the set because he did a ton of stuff from his last 15 or 20 years.
Rob Franklin:Right.
Bruce Franklin:Um, and most of it I didn't know, and I do know like some, and he only did five of the original band, the Alice Cooper group, which really brought him fame. He only did five songs from that era, and the rest was all like within the last 20 years. Um, and I don't want to do that to our fans, you know. So we try to do the best we can, like all our stuff, you know, through the years.
Dana Franklin:So going back to old videos and a shout out to our little brother John, who you know wanted to say big hi to you also. Um but back in the day, he Yes, he is. And back in the day, he sent me, I think, one of your very first videos of showing you know a famous Black Sabbath member, Bill Ward, throwing your drummer off the jump kit and jamming with you guys. How did that come about? And how did you get such a guy like him to be part of your video?
Bruce Franklin:Uh the guy that was shooting the video was neighbors with Bill Ward.
Rob Franklin:Uh oh, okay.
Bruce Franklin:And so he asked us, he goes, probably knew that we were influenced by Black Sabbath. He asked us, hey, would you guys like like to have Bill Ward in your video at all? Wow, we were all all at once, like, hell yeah! So yeah, he got them to come, and I do remember um, so that was 87. That was the run of the light album. Yeah, it was the run of the light video.
Dana Franklin:Yeah, that's yeah, that's what brought it up.
Bruce Franklin:Yeah, yeah, yeah. I do remember um the videographer saying, Um, and I wasn't really a drinker, but like some of the guys were, and he they were like, yeah, he was like, Yeah, don't don't drink around him because he's you know, he's been sober for a little while, and it's probably not good to be like drinking a bunch of beers around him, you know. And I so I remember that. Um and no, and he was great. He was great. I don't know whose idea it was for him to throw the drummer off. I don't know if it was even our idea, but that was a nice touch, uh classic, yeah. Yeah, yeah, I thought it was great.
Rob Franklin:Before show, how do you uh how do you warm up? Do you just do scales or uh what's your pre-show uh basically uh yeah, ritual, ritual, yeah. Good work. Yeah, yeah.
Bruce Franklin:Yeah, yeah. Get get in the dressing room and just probably play a lot of parts that I'm going to be playing in the show. Some of the harder things I know that I have to do. And I didn't used to do a whole lot of warm-ups when I was younger, but now, man, I got I got some arthritis stuff going on. But if I warm up, I'm usually okay, but if I don't, I'm not okay. Um, so anyway, yeah, I usually try to play a bunch of stuff that I know will be tougher in the show and go over it, and that's kind of how I usually warm up. Okay. Thank you.
Dana Franklin:So uh I got this this one's kind of a two-parter and nothing to do with anything, but with with your shows, uh I see so many new guys, new bands using in-air monitors. Are you a big fan of those? Do you use those? And second part of this is I saw a thing with you can have some upcoming shows in in Mexico next year. Um yeah, which I think if I remember right, reading your first time in Mexico. And are you excited about that? And how'd that come about?
Bruce Franklin:All right, first of all, the inner in-ear monitors, so I can tell you the experience I have with that is that I actually play in a church band that's that does like contemporary music, and they use in our in-ear monitors. So I have plenty of experience with them. I don't want to do it with trouble, although if I was a singer, I might, because man, you can hear yourself so good. Um but I as a guitar player I don't like not having the ambient sound. I want to hear my amp sound.
Dana Franklin:Yeah, you know, yeah, I would think so. That's been I see so many of these people were now to me that just seems like a distraction. Yeah.
Bruce Franklin:Yeah. And we play loud as hell, too, man. I mean, I still Marshall Stack.
Speaker 3:Nice jump in.
Bruce Franklin:Um and we get feedback and stuff, you know. So anyway, I th that's the way I want to hear it, you know. Um, but I do understand for singers, it really does help the inner really help you uh get beyond pitch, because you can hear yourself so well. I mean little you know, it it it's brutal honest, you know. So if you're not hear how not great you are, but uh but uh it really helps though because I also sing at w in the church band too sometimes, not all the time, but sometimes, and it's super and it really helps finding your pitch having hearing it like that.
Rob Franklin:Hey, Frog.
Bruce Franklin:Not so much throwing that rock and roll stage, man. You gotta just blast it.
Rob Franklin:Yes, there you go.
Dana Franklin:Hell yeah.
Rob Franklin:And again, for those uh bands out there listening, what would you suggest to them as far as uh at what point should you get like an accountant or a lawyer?
Bruce Franklin:Uh lawyer, for if you're signing any contract, you need a lawyer.
Speaker 3:Right.
Bruce Franklin:Um, no matter how small or big. Um accountant, even I don't think even we had the kind of money where you really need an accountant. Um, I mean, I didn't get rich. Um, but and it wasn't because of mistakes like um you know having bad accounting. Um so I don't I can't really answer that. We I don't think we're really at the level where you really need that. And there aren't many in this day and age anymore. So I mean we could have this whole discussion of um uh uh when the legacy bands die out, man, there aren't gonna be any more huge bands. Yeah, the music business is just nobody makes money off of records. I mean, you know, there's no nowhere near the money that there used to be. And that's why there's only a couple of record labels, I mean major ones. Um so anyway, I don't think anybody's gonna ru not many, like like maybe a fraction of a percent of bands might have to worry about accounting, you know. All right.
Dana Franklin:Yeah, fair enough. Yeah, the music industry has changed so much. I mean, it's it's it's ridiculous, it's almost sad, but um Yeah.
Bruce Franklin:Well, anybody anybody that asks me about like doing it as a career, I tell them don't make it your main career because there's not enough money.
Dana Franklin:Yeah. So so going back to, you know, like said with your career, is there you know, hindsight's always 2020. Is there anything you would have changed 10, 20, 30 years ago that you think might have been better for the band, or any anything you would have changed that might have made you get over, you know, that that plateau of being one of those legacy bands like you were talking about?
Bruce Franklin:Well, there's one thing I would change. Um so after uh the Manic Frustration album, guys in the band were talking about we're not getting enough money. We you know, we want to get out of, we want to get out of our contract. Well, we want well, firstly, we want more money from uh American Deaf American recordings, or we want out of our contract. And I remember thinking, man, you guys are nuts. Like we fought our way to get here, and we're here at you know, like the highest level, you know, not the highest of the highest level, the lowest of the highest level, but we made it to the highest level. And and you know, uh I thought it was a mistake, but I was outvoted, and so we ended up leaving Deaf America. We so a lot of people think we got dropped. We did not get dropped. The band asked out of the contract.
Speaker 3:Oh okay.
Bruce Franklin:He I think he was pissed, but he was like, All right, you know, and um and we did get more money for one record, you know, and then like then our career kind of nosedived, you know, like I mean in you know the amount of I mean we weren't getting his high profile tours and and that kind of stuff, you know. Um and I don't know how much would have changed because you know the you know the whole music scene was changing anyway. It went through the grunge thing and then new metal, and maybe it it wouldn't have helped if we had stayed on Deaf American, but it sure couldn't have hurt. Um because the you have those resources of a major label, yeah, you know. Um so I think maybe that would be the one thing that I would change and would like to see if it would have made a difference, but we'll never know, you know.
Rob Franklin:Okay, you said you're not a tech guy, but uh as far as like rehearsals, do you guys ever send files back and forth to each other to like construct the song, or is it all live when you're together?
Bruce Franklin:It's live when we're together, but so we did rehearsals in the same house where we're recording, and our sound guy would record our rehearsals of our new songs and send them to everybody, and so we'd have recordings and be able to talk about it. And so in that way, yes. Um but we don't record like at our house, you know, and then send them to everybody and say, look, here's a new song I'm working on, you know. Okay it's we get together in a room and play it.
Rob Franklin:Right. And how often, if you don't mind me asking, do you guys rehearse?
Bruce Franklin:Um, we never rehearse unless we have gigs or if we're working on a record. Okay. In the beginning, we rehearsed four nights a week no matter what. And that's what made us a really great tight band. Like we were like the tightest metal band in Chicago because of that.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Bruce Franklin:Um not that you know, we don't do that, but so for we we played last time we played live was in May. We have these shows in Mexico at the end of February. We'll probably start rehearsal maybe in late January, one time a week.
Rob Franklin:Okay.
Dana Franklin:Oh, alright. Um, so with your huge catalog that you've got and all the songs and albums, you know, I'm gonna ask you that one question. What is your favorite album and your one favorite song? If there's a if there's to pick one album and one song, what would it be?
Bruce Franklin:Of Trouble? Yes. Or anything.
Dana Franklin:No, of trouble. Of your of your own material.
Bruce Franklin:Alright, so the song will be harder to choose, but the album for sure for me is that first deaf American record, the trouble 1990s.
Dana Franklin:Nice. That's awesome, because that's my favorite too. That it's that manic frustration out low.
Bruce Franklin:Yeah. Yeah. I um I was super involved with that record. I I wrote um, I don't know, probably 80% of the music on that record. I was in the studio for every minute of the recording, of no matter who was recording. Um, and I just saw this, saw that record as this is our shot. Because we were on, you know, Metal Blade Records was indie label, you know, and then we get signed to a major with Rick Rubin producing, and I was this is our shot. I'm gonna I'm gonna do everything I can to make this great, you know. And I was actually, so you guys may have heard stories about Rick Rubin, like when he's producing, he's not always there. I don't know if you've heard those stories. Yeah, I've heard lots of people I've told.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Bruce Franklin:Um, and it was it was no different with us. He wasn't there much of the time.
Rob Franklin:Really? Wow.
Bruce Franklin:So I was actually producing the vocals with Eric every day, and I put him through the ringer, man. Um, but it was the best he ever sounded. Um, because I knew we had to do that. This was our shot, you know. And he sometimes he was kind of mad at me because I'd make him do stuff till it was as as good as he could possibly do. But um, so that whole record, I had that attitude, like, you know, like do everything can to make this great, you know. So and then and I feel like that's the way it turned out. Um, so that's why it's my favorite record.
Dana Franklin:Okay. Um now I think in talking with you, you said something, you mentioned something about you know, selling your catalog, and you've got a new company you were at Hammer, Hammerhead, Hammerheart. Uh how did how did that come about? And you know, what what what made that happen?
Bruce Franklin:Uh he contacted us. So uh there's a guy that owns the label, and he contacted us um and he was interested in releasing everything we had. And at the time we told him, well, we don't have everything, you know. Um we have some stuff we could and he wanted everything. Um so anyway, a couple years went by and it got to the point where we basically owned everything except for one record, the run to the light record, Metal Blade Record, still owns and probably will be for life because we because of the contract we signed, but they they did re-release that record and gave us some money and we had some input on the re-release. Um, so anyway, at least they did that. But the whole rest of the catalog we basically owned. So we ended up selling to this guy for uh 10 years, and he gave us uh in advance, um and it was in the tens of thousands. Um and Rick and I both thought this is you know, I we were both hoping we'd maybe get more for our catalog, and we were both thought we'd never see another cent. But here's the good part. So it took about two and a half years to recoup that advance, and now we're getting like regular royalties because they're still selling.
Rob Franklin:Very cool. That's great.
Bruce Franklin:That's been a huge blessing, and also that's what's a lot of those young people that you were talking about are like buying our stuff because they're just getting turned on to trouble. They want to they want to buy the vinyl, they want to buy the CD, and they're buying from Hammerheart, you know. Cool. Um so yeah, it's been great. I mean, I I I have nothing bad to say about them, and that's maybe the first label I could ever say that about.
Rob Franklin:Well, Bruce, we don't want to take your whole night here, but uh what advice would you have for like new musicians just getting ready to like start hitting the stage? What's what would be your main piece of advice to those individuals?
Bruce Franklin:Uh spend plenty of re time rehearsing and knowing that you have your material together as a band. Um and as a band is the key, not just yourself. Yeah, you know, if you you gotta listen to your other players in your band, and if something's not right, you gotta make it right. Not you can't only worry about yourself, you know. Um, but that's the key, yeah. And then you come out, and if you sound great as a band and what you're doing, good things usually happen, you know, whatever degree that may be, you know.
Dana Franklin:Awesome. Um with uh now what now what do you plan? I know you you have a big influence overseas, and you've done a lot of stuff overseas with me at festivals or whatever. What what do you think has made it to where you know overseas you might have a bigger name than here in the States? Is it just because they know their music better over there? Which I mean I I would agree with because they got a lot of great bands over there. But what do you what do you think is is the focus on you know why they love trouble maybe a little bit more than the states?
Bruce Franklin:Well, it wasn't always that way, so I think a lot of it has to do with um heavy metal still does good business. Uh last I knew it. We haven't been to Europe in a few years, but I mean heavy metal still is alive and well in Europe. Oh it is Britain and you and rest of Europe. Um and it died in America. I mean, you know, there's some fans, but it's it's nowhere near what it was.
Rob Franklin:Yeah.
Bruce Franklin:So I would say, you know, like in the eighties and nineties, we were much bigger in America than we were in Europe. But in the last 20 years, 20, 25 years, we've become bigger in Europe. Only because that kind of music is still popular over there. You go over there and play festivals to you know, tens or hundreds of thousands, you know. I mean, we played the biggest festival we ever played was uh this was was actually in the later nineties, but um uh we played a festival in the Netherlands um and it was a hundred and ten thousand there, and there was about seventy-five thousand watching us when we played. And that that's never gonna happen in America, not you know, not for us.
Dana Franklin:Well, yeah, not for anybody anymore, actually.
Bruce Franklin:But they're not that big, you know. Even the ones where like say uh Poison and Molly Crew and those kind of bands play, and there might be 50,000, you know, maybe 40,000, but there ain't no a hundred thousands. And I mean we've played Walken also, like you know, like forty thousand there, and um and there's bigger ones, even like the ones a couple of the ones in uh Britain are pretty big, and in German, there's some more in Germany. I'm trying to remember them all, but um, there's just tons of festivals and they draw tens of thousands of people, you know, and it just that doesn't happen in America, you know. Not uh not now, not these days.
Dana Franklin:Yeah, which is which is too bad. You know, it's yeah.
Bruce Franklin:Yes, but not not anymore.
Dana Franklin:Well, you know, it's it's I I can't even say how how awesome this has been talking to you. Not not only just catching up with you, cousin, but just you know, having a having a member of such a prominent band, you know, on our podcast is like I said, from day one, we're we were hoping to get you and talk to you. So any any any last words to you know, what would you say to people out there like trouble? Who who who is trouble? How would you introduce yourself to a new listener?
Bruce Franklin:Great question. Uh so it depends. So if it's somebody that knows metal is one thing, if it's just a person that doesn't like really know a ton of like the details about heavy metal, I'll tell like regular people when they ask about my band, I'll say, well, it kind of sounds like a cross between Black Sabbath and Led Zeppelin and a little bit of Metallica mixed in. Um but like people that know metal, I you know, I would tell them more, you know, like Black Sabbath and Judas Priest, you know, kind of mixed and you know, similar with the vocals of like Robert Plant. I mean, our original singer was like that.
Dana Franklin:So you're you're your first show. Um I I think I saw a poster of like the first time you ever opened, and I think it was for Megadeth. Is is that it, or was there a show that preceded that? Well, I mean, first I guess major show of opening for a major band. Well, okay, who was it?
Bruce Franklin:Um maybe uh well, they weren't a major band. That was their very first show.
Speaker 3:Oh, okay.
Bruce Franklin:So you know, Dave Mustaine had been kicked out of Metallica before the first record, you know. Um, so he wasn't a huge name. I mean, he wasn't a big name.
Dana Franklin:So you're you're I don't know. Yeah, your first I would I'd say I okay, let me rephrase this. Your first show with the with a big name at the time.
Bruce Franklin:Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, and it was in San Francisco, so that's where he's from. Yeah. That's where they were based. So yeah. Um I'm trying, well, you know what? Is that I'm trying to remember the the years because we went out to LA to record our first album, and then we went out six months later to out to LA again to record our second album. And one of those times, and I can't remember which time, it probably was the second time. So we did four or four or five shows with Slayer. I think that was the second time though. That was the second time we were in California. The first time was when we did the show you're talking about. So maybe that was um I'm trying to think if we played with anybody back here in Chicago. Um I can't can't I don't want to take too much time to think about it. I I d that may have been maybe the first uh uh but Megadeth really wasn't anybody yet, and they were off. I mean they were bad, man. It was their very first show, they were terrible. I remember I remember thinking this band's never gonna amount to anything, man. They're terrible. Uh and they were, but I mean that was their first show, and they, you know, obviously they they took it from there.
Rob Franklin:Yeah, yeah. Well, Bruce, this has been totally outstanding. And like Dan and I said earlier, you know, we've wanted to do this for a year now. In fact, our anniversary for a year is uh the 20th. So uh thank you, thank you very much. And in closing, uh all I've got to say is I really appreciate you doing this for us.
Bruce Franklin:All right, well, thank you guys.
Dana Franklin:Uh, definitely been our pleasure, and we we gotta we gotta catch up more even outside the podcast just to stay in touch, man. And you know, good luck with uh the new album. We expect some clips before the general public. I mean I mean stuff in our way and you know, give us a little taste.
Rob Franklin:Okay. All right, man. Thank you, everybody, and bye.
Dana Franklin:Yeah, peace out. Thank you, Bruce. Appreciate it, man.
Rob Franklin:Yeah. All right, bye.
